Fans of NBC's long-running political drama "The West Wing" know actor Bradley Whitford as White House Deputy Chief of Staff Josh Lyman. The series, which ran from 1999 to 2006, depicted Washington as a place where despite the politicking and immorality, the Constitution prevailed.

Those who watch Hulu's dystopian nightmare "The Handmaid's Tale," which is headed into its final season next year, know him as Commander Lawrence. He's the conflicted architect of a militarized theocracy that took root in America after a second civil war where the Constitution did not prevail.

"I'm not oblivious to the irony that my career is basically tracking the death of democracy," joked Whitford, 65, via a Zoom interview from his native Wisconsin, where he along with many of his former colleagues from "The West Wing" cast were campaigning for the Harris-Walz campaign.

He also serves on the board of advisers of Let America Vote, an organization that aims to end voter suppression and on the advisory board of Citizens' Climate Lobby, an international grassroots environmental group.

And it was Whitford who delivered the best opening line during a "White Dudes for Harris" fundraiser in June. "What a variety of whiteness we have here," he said at the Zoom gathering, which raised about $4 million for the Democratic nominee's campaign. "It's like a rainbow of beige."

Whitford spoke to the Times about his efforts on the campaign trail, the stakes of this election and the perils of talking politics while famous. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Q: Can you remember a more stressful election?

A: If you're in a dark place, [Wisconsin Sen.] Tammy Baldwin and I decided the best way to describe this feeling is nauseously optimistic.

Q: Let's talk about the optimistic part.

A: I'm from Wisconsin. I've been back there basically every cycle for the last quarter-century [to campaign]. I have never seen the level of energy and excitement that I've seen this time around. And there's something else that is required in order to win elections, which is insecurity.

If there is a silver lining with the rise of Trumpism, it is that we progressives can no longer assume that democracy is inevitable, that an inclusive society is inevitable.

Q: What has it been like campaigning with the "West Wing" cast in Wisconsin?

A: Politics aside, I defy you to find another group of people who went through this amazing thing together, who love each other and stay in touch as much as we do. It's an incredible gift in our lives, and everybody understands that the bizarre opportunity we have to advocate for issues we believe in.

A lot of it comes from the example that Martin [Sheen] has set with his life. He's the thing that made that show work. We didn't have to act our sense of admiration or love or desire to protect him. He's a very dear heart, and I don't know anybody who's put his faith in action like that, or understood the importance of speaking up politically and is willing to risk anything in a fight for justice.

Things were tightening up in Wisconsin, as they inevitably do, and everybody shows up. Martin, who is 84 years old for God's sake, got on a plane. Mary McCormack, Richard Schiff. Dule [Hill]. We all show up for each other.

Q: What's your response to those who say, 'You're a celebrity. You should butt out of politics'?

A: I totally understand people rolling their eyes when celebrities talk about politics. I've rolled mine. I usually begin a speech by reminding people that I'm a theater major. But one thing that I am proud of about all of the people who choose to spend their celebrity by shining a light on issues that are important is that we're not advocating for our self-interest.

You're worried actors having too much influence on the political system, going out and doing rallies for Stacey Abrams? You should see what the oil companies are doing through the political system. It's all self-interest.

I'm proud of everybody who speaks up trying to hold this country up to its spectacular, unfulfilled promise, because we're not saying things we probably should say [if this was about self-interest], like we need more filming incentives in California.

Q: The irony is that Republicans have repeatedly voted for celebrities, men who have been in film and TV. Reagan, Schwarzenegger, Trump.

A: I'm always apologizing for being a celebrity, for being a guy who wears makeup for a living.

So Donald Trump comes along, and it would be as if I said, "Here's what your readers need to understand about me. I am phenomenally rich. I mean, you have no idea. And the reason I'm so rich is I am the greatest actor who ever lived. I don't know if you saw my work in 'Revenge of the Nerds II: Nerds in Paradise,' but I'm a genius. And by the way, I just want to say that little Chrissy Bale, he sucks."

If I said that, I would hope that my career would be over.

Q: Hollywood might reject you, in which case you could host a TV reality competition — or run for president.

A: We have to face the fact that we are conducting politics in the age of entertainment. The death penalty in politics is reserved for one thing only. You can have an affair with an intern, and you'll be forgiven. You can go to war based on false intelligence without a plan, maybe kill a couple hundred thousand civilians. You'll be forgiven.

The death penalty in politics is reserved for one thing, which is my idiotic, daily fear: being bad on TV. That is unforgivable.

While bewildering, Trump is really good TV. A problem that we need to be aware of is that it is much more fun to watch a car wreck than it is to see a car stop at a stop sign. Everyone is incentivized now by getting attention, which is why we really need hometown newspapers with a sense of civic obligation to put things into perspective and print.

Q: You've had major roles in shows and films that are very topical or political, including the 2017 race-based horror film "Get Out." Have you sought out those kinds of productions?

A: This is not intentional. I always just took the most interesting thing that I could get. I've been able to be on shows that put flesh and heart and stakes on contentious abstract issues, and that is a really important prerequisite for creating a political system that is going to embrace those ideas.

I'm proud to be a part of a cultural movement which I think is trying to hold this country up to its spectacular, unfulfilled aspiration of inclusion and opportunity for all.

It reminds me. ... I worked on this Clint Eastwood movie called "A Perfect World." I was sitting next to him on the set one day, and I'm reading the New York Times. He had just won the Oscar [for "Unforgiven"] and there's this big headline and picture of him. It said, "Clint Eastwood's Vision of America." And I go, "Hey, Clint, did you see this? It's about your vision of America." And he said, "Vision of America? Ten years ago I was working with an orangutan. Now they think I'm Gandhi. I just took the best role available."

Q: Do you think entertainment helps move the needle around elections?

A: We tend to think that [popular] culture is the way you create your moral vision, and it certainly is very important. But the "West Wing" won't help you if you have a preexisting condition and no health care. And if you're a rape victim without access to abortion care, "The Handmaid's Tale" won't help you.

The right has understood that politics is the way you create your moral vision. We need to be involved politically, up and down the ballot, as opposed to waiting every four years to see if we fall in love with the candidates.

Q: "The West Wing" premiered in 1999. "The Handmaid's Tale" arrived 18 years later. If put back to back, they show a decline in American society and politics that's quite frightening.

A: I'm not oblivious to the irony that my career is basically tracking the death of democracy. "West Wing" is kind of reassuring progressive porn now. When I read Margaret Atwood's book when it came out in 1984, it seemed like a quaint nightmare.

Margaret has said that she almost shelved that book a couple of times because she just thought it was too improbable and was a premise that that we wouldn't buy. And here we are. The Journal of the American Medical Association has said 65,000 rape victims are pregnant [in states with total abortion bans]. And that was in February, so God knows what it is now.

We are currently forcing rape victims to carry to term the child of their rapists. That's about as "Handmaid's" as you can get.

Q: "The Handmaid's Tale" has eerily predicted events that have rocked the nation, such as the fall of Roe v. Wade. Does it feel spooky in that way on set?

A: Last year I was directing, so I went back and watched every episode. And there are these flashbacks where suddenly women's [rights are being repealed]. There's an assumption that the worst can't happen, but it does.

And I think we need to name it: white, Christian nationalism — and misogyny is at the reptilian brain stem of white Christian nationalism. And it's using the levers of democracy to undermine democracy, which is basically what [cues up] "The Handmaid's Tale."

Q: People are overwhelmed and exhausted with all the vitriol and misinformation around this election. Are you?

A: This is part of the strategy, flooding the zone, as Steve Bannon says. This is how [the far right] wants us to feel. Make people exhausted, confused, thinking the political system doesn't work anymore.

I try to remind people that's absolutely part of the game plan. But despair is a luxury that your children can't afford. Action is the antidote.

Q: "The West Wing" seems quaint now.

A: One of the great things about that show is its noncynical portrayal of the importance of public service, and that's the kind of fundamental message that, you know, is really bipartisan.

I always say the biggest thing about "West Wing" is we had rational Republicans. If I pitched Donald Trump [to the show's writers] as somebody we were going to run against, it would have seemed very disrespectful.

Q: What makes you hopeful?

A: One of the things that gives me hope is this is the first post-Dobbs presidential election and women are pissed. If you look at every special election since [the Supreme Court's Dobbs decision gutted the constitutional right to abortion services], women have really showed up [to vote].

Q: I'm glad to hear you're optimistic, even if it does come with nausea.

A: I'm very optimistic. And if not, I'll see you in the internment camp. But don't wave. Just blink twice. Save yourself.

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