John E. Jones III is the president of Dickinson College and a retired federal judge appointed by President George W. Bush. David E. Clementson is a scholar of political communication at the University of Georgia and a specialist in political deception. Senior politics editor Naomi Schalit interviewed the two about the latest developments in the hush-money trial of former President Donald Trump, and the discussion ranged from the judge’s handling of the case (“Adroit,” says Jones) to the purportedly salacious testimony of Stormy Daniels (“No one really seems to care,” says Clementson).

What have you both seen from the trial in the past week that has stood out to you?

John E. Jones III: What impresses me is that, despite the circus that it could devolve into, I have to give Judge Juan Merchan credit for his adroit handling of the case. It’s clearly moving faster than many predicted. That’s the role of the trial judge, to keep the parties moving without rushing them. If you rush them, it cuts against justice, and I think he’s found the right balance in what he’s done.

David E. Clementson: I’ll also speak about the judge. From a political communication standpoint, I think the judge is making it easier for Trump to win the presidency. And Trump is responding by trying his best to get the judge to throw him in jail.

I say this for three reasons. First, the judge is keeping Trump in New York City, the media capital of the world. Most politicians would kill to get to have a press conference every day in New York City. If Trump were left to his own devices, he would be doing more rallies in places like Waukesha, Wisconsin, getting no attention and not moving the needle. Instead, he’s holding near daily press conferences outside the Manhattan courtroom.

Second, the trial keeps Trump seated all day at a table with paper and pen in front of him. He closes his eyes, he has time to think. Trump might be less prone to gaffes and could script statements that sound more presidential than if he were free to be running around, flying off the cuff and getting himself in even more trouble.

Third, the judge’s gag order is doing Trump a favor. The judge tells Trump what he can and cannot talk about, which happens to align with winning talking points. The judge forbids Trump from talking about witnesses in the trial or the jury, and the public happens to not care about them either.

Yet, Trump still insists on complaining about this stuff that voters don’t care about.

The judge said Trump can talk about his campaign. The judge is essentially ordering Trump to stay on a winning message.

And Trump effectively says, “No, I’d rather go to jail.”

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